RFE/RL’s Georgian Service spoke to Daniel Fried, a former U.S. diplomat with over 40 years of expertise serving in senior posts below a number of U.S. presidents. Colleagues describe him as a pragmatist who led efforts to work with Russia as a White Home aide below Invoice Clinton after the autumn of the Berlin Wall, and later when serving below George W. Bush.

Fried was serving because the assistant secretary of state for European and Eurasia affairs in August 2008 when Russia launched its invasion of Georgia. In candid remarks, Fried says what he thinks the Obama administration acquired unsuitable — particularly its try in 2009 and 2010 to “reset” relations with Russia — and what it acquired proper — offering diplomatic and different help to Georgia that was essential for the survival of its statehood.

RFE/RL: What’s the newest impression of the 2008 battle, each for Georgia and the bigger world?

Daniel Fried: Russia tried to intimidate Georgia by a battle and provides itself the flexibility to proceed to intimidate Georgia by manipulating the scenario on the borders. However Georgia, as a result of it fought so effectively throughout these 5 days, maintained its independence. [Former Georgian President Mikheil] Saakashvili did not fall, he misplaced an election later and left energy peacefully. With U.S. assist, Georgia maintained its independence. Proper after the battle we helped set up a global donors convention which gave over $4 billion to the Georgian financial system, which was sufficient to maintain them afloat. So, Georgia maintained its independence, nevertheless it misplaced territory.

However Georgia’s geography is just not nice, and Russia has the flexibility to proceed to intimidate Georgia. However the issue, in fact, is that the present Georgian authorities does appear frightened or pretends to be terrified of what the Russians can do. However I do not need to be harsh, as a result of Russia is an aggressive energy and Georgia is in a susceptible place.

However internationally, [then-Russian Prime Minister Vladimir] Putin acquired away with it. And I say that with out satisfaction or pleasure. The Bush administration after the battle understood that its coverage of reaching out to Putin had failed…. Nevertheless it meant that Putin acquired away with it. After which six years later, in 2014, he assaults Ukraine, pondering he can get away with it.

RFE/RL: What did the 2008 battle imply for you? How did it impression you each professionally and personally?

Fried: All of us who had been concerned in U.S. coverage towards Georgia and Russia bear in mind each hour of day-after-day of that battle. I bear in mind talking on the telephone to Russian Deputy International Minister [Grigory] Karasin. I bear in mind chatting with [former U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza] Rice. I bear in mind the journey she took in July 2008 to Tbilisi and what she stated to Saakashvili. I bear in mind the discussions I had with Eka Tkeshelashvili, Georgian international minister, on Thursday afternoon (August 7, the day the battle began).

I bear in mind, , the photographs of the Russian tanks rolling by. I bear in mind the journey to Tbilisi, however first [I went] to southern France, to work with the French on enhancing their not terribly good six-point peace plan. I bear in mind being on the telephone with the French national-security adviser whereas I used to be within the room with Rice and Saakashvili speaking about the identical factor.

So, I bear in mind it very effectively. It meant in a bigger sense that Putin was keen to go to battle to defend his model of the Russian Empire. It is a lesson we’ve all realized with respect to Ukraine, however we realized it first with Georgia.

RFE/RL: If you look again now, do you might have any regrets? What, if something, might have been dealt with in a different way?

Fried: Positive. I believe we had been proper within the run-up to the battle to be fearful, however we weren’t fearful sufficient. I am going to offer you a selected instance of precisely what I imply.

So, I used to be the assistant secretary for Europe. The subsequent individual up the chain was Undersecretary [of State for Political Affairs] Invoice Burns. He is now head of the CIA. Condi Rice advised me that she needed Invoice Burns to go to Berlin and talk to the Germans and speak to the Russians to move off the battle.

On reflection, she was late. We must always have escalated prior to we did. We knew what was coming. However we had been just a little bit gradual to fairly imagine it. I am going to offer you one other instance. We did not suppose the battle would really occur. Folks had been occurring summer season holidays.

RFE/RL: Wouldn’t it be harsh to say that Washington did not take the specter of a Russian invasion significantly sufficient?

Fried: Georgia has suffered. I am not going to criticize the best way [Georgians] criticize us. You’ve gotten each proper to be crucial. And the USA was proper, however we had been too gradual. We had been at a 5 or a six; we must always have been at a 9, , on an urgency scale. A part of the issue was that the U.S. analytic neighborhood did not suppose Russia would assault; they saved saying they’d not assault.

RFE/RL: Why was that?

Fried: As a result of they simply lacked creativeness. They could not fairly perceive that Putin actually was an aggressor. So principally, I bear in mind on Monday (August 4), on the senior workers assembly, I say to Condi Rice: “I’ve a really unhealthy feeling about this week, issues will not be going effectively. Putin might assault.” She did not disbelieve me…. So, in the event you’re Condi Rice, you have acquired Dan Fried, who says it, however , do you imagine that?

RFE/RL: It was your intestine feeling, so to talk?

Fried: It was my intestine feeling. However even I did not take it significantly sufficient to remain residence. As a result of we thought there’d been crises earlier than, there had been plenty of them. And we thought this was one other disaster, the place the Russians had been making an attempt to intimidate Georgia, however they would not assault.

Now, I do not need to be too onerous on us. In spite of everything, President Bush, ultimately, in all probability satisfied Putin to drag again. You bear in mind, we despatched planes to fly the Georgian 1st Brigade again from Iraq, and ships. I bear in mind we knowledgeable the Russians that we had been flying them as a result of we did not need them stunned. We needed them to know what we had been doing. And so they stated they could not assure the protection of our plane, which was a veiled menace. And we principally stated to them, “We’re entering into anyway.” And so they backed off.

You bear in mind, the battle begins Thursday night time (August 7), and on Monday (August 11), the Russian tanks are rolling. And the Georgian strains had damaged and the Georgian Military is in retreat, and it regarded like they (the Russians) would transfer on to Tbilisi.

In actual fact, [U.S. Ambassador to Georgia John] Tefft, we had been having a number of calls a day, and Tefft stated, “Dan, you understand, do not you, the place the embassy is?” After all, they’re on the primary street north of Tbilisi. And he stated, “The Russian Military could possibly be right here tonight.” And he was completely calm. He was completely targeted and understood what was occurring.

Matthew Bryza, my deputy who had flown out to Tbilisi, he was within the presidential palace with [then-Swedish Foreign Minister] Carl Bildt. They thought it could possibly be attacked, however they weren’t going to go away, they had been simply going to remain there. They needed to present private solidarity, which really took some braveness as a result of that will have been an early goal and so they did not care.

RFE/RL: Some analysts have claimed that President Saakashvili was “provoked” by Russia in 2008. Do you suppose that is a good evaluation, particularly given Russia’s full invasion now of Ukraine?

Fried: Putin needed his battle towards Ukraine. And regardless that the U.S. efficiently uncovered all of Putin’s provocations, he went in anyway. And also you’re in all probability pondering, effectively, the identical is true in Georgia, Putin would have gone in anyway and also you’re proper. So, responsible Saakashvili and say, effectively, he fell for the provocations, due to this fact the battle is his fault is nonsense. Putin would have gone in anyway.

The Russian proxy forces had been shelling Georgian villages. However we did warn Saakashvili upfront to not transfer. Condi Rice did it after we had been in Tbilisi in July [2008]. I did it that very day. However I perceive that they had been kind of provoked, and let’s simply stipulate that Putin would have attacked anyway.

However the issue is that you just had the Germans and the French in a position to blame Saakashvili and half-excuse Putin. And their response to the Russo-Georgian battle was a lot weaker than to the Russo-Ukrainian battle…. However let’s be clear the place accountability lies for this battle — it’s Vladimir Putin. Let’s be clear about that.

RFE/RL: In an interview precisely one 12 months in the past, you stated that the West was not united sufficient again then, so it opted for financial help, versus imposing sanctions on Russia. In hindsight, was that the suitable determination, or the one reasonable one?

Fried: It will have been higher to impose sanctions. However two issues: one, we weren’t as good about sanctions, not but. We realized the best way to do sanctions towards Iran, after 2008. We acquired loads smarter. After which we utilized them towards Russia.

So, one, we weren’t as good. And two, we’d by no means have had consensus. The Germans and French wouldn’t have supported [it] and had we tried, we’d have misplaced. It will have been just like the [2008] Bucharest [NATO] summit (the place the army alliance didn’t invite Ukraine and Georgia to progress to Membership Motion Plans (MAPs.)) Shedding the combat on a MAP — and we’d have misplaced once more twice in a single 12 months. That might have been unhealthy.

So, do I remorse we did not do sanctions? Positive. On reflection, ought to we’ve performed them? Positive. However there have been hurdles that we could not recover from.

RFE/RL: Talking of the French, how clever was it for Paris to be in a number one negotiating position in 2008, particularly in mild of latest efforts of French President Emmanuel Macron to have interaction Putin over Ukraine?

Fried: Properly, look, I bear in mind after we had been within the south of France and having a look on the six-point cease-fire that Sarkozy had negotiated within the presidency of the EU. You in all probability know the small print of the issue with the map and that the road of Russian management bisected Georgia. It was a large number. So, Condi [Rice] turns to me and says: “The French invented cartography. Did not anyone learn a map?” Which is her model of being actually indignant.

Sarkozy’s six-point plan wanted to be mounted. However we won’t blame him or the French, as a result of had the plan been higher, it won’t have made a distinction. The Minsk accords (the worldwide agreements that tried to finish the combating in jap Ukraine) had their faults, however they had been a lot better really than the six- level plan. However you may discover that Putin didn’t respect the Minsk accords. He twisted them, he projected onto them the that means that they did not have and waited for individuals to simply accept his nonsense interpretation…. The issues weren’t crucial as a result of Putin would have ignored a greater doc anyway. The doc stopped the combating, which is what Putin needed to do.

RFE/RL: The U.S. “reset” coverage with Russia was initiated in 2009, months after the battle between Russia and Georgia. Was {that a} naive determination or wishful pondering on the a part of the Obama administration?

Fried: Look, Mike McFaul (on the time a senior White Home adviser) was the architect of the reset. And we had a dialog. I do know him and I respect him. And by the best way, simply in case, to know the place Mike’s coming from, check out his testimony from the autumn of 2008 that we each gave. He was working for Obama; the election hadn’t occurred. And plenty of the Obama individuals had been very crucial of Bush’s dealing with of Georgia, and half of them kind of believed the battle was [Vice President] Dick Cheney’s fault and he had egged on Saakashvili and a few nonsense. Mike McFaul was the international coverage individual. And his testimony to the Senate, concerning the Georgian battle, was an identical to mine. He blamed Putin, he did not maintain again.

So, he tried, he comes up with the reset. And we had a dialog about this once I was nonetheless in my previous job. And I stated, “Look, Mike, I do know why you are making an attempt to do it.” And politically, the Obama persons are going to say, they suppose that Bush was clumsy and aggressive, and so we will do it higher. We will do it higher.

And I stated to him: “I do know why you are doing it. And I am not going to trash you for it. I am not going to assault you since you’re doing it for a similar causes we did it. However let me let you know one thing, you may fail for a similar causes we fail. As a result of Putin’s phrases for a greater relationship you will not have the ability to settle for any greater than for every week.”

And he did not argue with me. He understood my level and later, he admitted that I had been proper. So, he tries for the reset. And [former Secretary of State] Hillary Clinton was keen to offer it a strive. It was kind of a prophetic second when the phrase for “reset” was misspelled.

That is an abridged model of the interview and has been edited for size and readability.